The Nourished Woman with Keri Marino

Yoga Isn't Just Bendy People in Cute Pants with Liz Delaney

• Keri Marino • Episode 7

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What happens when we approach yoga not as a workout, but as medicine? 

In this soul-nourishing conversation with Liz Delaney, owner of Greenville Yoga and coach for women in transition, we explore how traditional yoga practices offer a powerful counterbalance to our culture's obsession with speed, perfection, and visible results.

Liz shares how her 20-year journey as a studio owner began with a commitment to create a space where everyone belongs—where accessibility trumps Instagram-worthy poses, and embodiment takes precedence over performance. "I always like everything to feel accessible," she explains, "maybe a little challenge, but just a little beyond your comfort zone." This philosophy has created a thriving community where healing happens through being witnessed, breathing together, and connecting authentically.

The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we discuss how our yoga practices often initially reinforce our existing patterns rather than disrupting them. For perfectionists, yoga becomes another arena for perfectionism; for those who can't slow down, it becomes another way to stay busy. The true transformation begins when we recognize these patterns and allow our practice to become "an interruption" to our programming—a wake-up call that invites us to explore differently and find genuine pleasure in our bodies.

Perhaps most powerful is Liz's butterfly metaphor for navigating life transitions, based on Martha Beck's change cycle. Just as a caterpillar must cocoon, dissolve into "goo," and struggle to emerge with strong wings, we too need time to grieve, dream, and eventually rebuild after significant changes. "Sometimes we don't have all the information and we want to take the next right step, but sometimes the next step hasn't provided itself because it's not time yet."

Whether you're a seasoned yogi or curious newcomer, this episode offers permission to slow down, embrace mystery, and find your own rhythm of growth and healing. As Liz reflects on her own evolving practice: "It's always kind of met me right where I am."

Did this episode resonate with you? Please share it with a friend. 🌹

If you want info on The Sacred F*ck Its: Less Hustle, More Wholeness audio course, check it out here. It's only $144 with payment plans available. 

Let's connect on Instagram @the_nourished_woman or through my website www.KeriMarino.com

Find out more about Liz Delaney and Greenville Yoga's offerings at www.GreenvilleYoga.com

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Nourished Woman podcast, a space for women on a growth and healing journey who want to experience more joy, play and pleasure while feeling deeply rooted within themselves. Body play and pleasure while feeling deeply rooted within themselves body, mind and spirit. I'm your host, keri Marino, somatic yoga therapist, mentor and mama of three. Let's dive in love. So today I have the privilege of having Liz Delaney on the Nourished Woman podcast. Liz, you are my first guest ever. Thank you so much for being here with us.

Speaker 2:

I was reflecting. I've known you for around 14 years. When I met you, your babies were so young and I was this. Like you know, I was in my maiden stage. Tanner and I were dating, but we hadn't married yet, I didn't have kids yet, and I feel like over those years I've gotten to see a lot of what's ahead of me along the way by watching your journey, whether up close or from afar, and you've just always been somebody that I found to be really grounding and committed and devoted to doing this work and also being this beautiful weaver of community around the topics of yoga and growth and healing for people. So I'm honored to sit across from you today and I'd love to know what is nourishing you right now, like body, mind and spirit? What is feeling deeply nourishing for you in this season of your life?

Speaker 1:

Well, first, thank you, you totally just made me cry a little bit. Thank you, gary. I feel like we were both babies when we met. So, yeah, okay, what is nourishing me right now? I'd really say it's my female friendships. I have a group of women that I met. One of them I met online through training I was taking and we just immediately felt like soul sisters. And another is a woman that's here in town that I've known for decades. She went through teacher training and she's always said I'm like her big sister. And then she met a friend in Los Angeles who she immediately felt soul sisters, and the four of us went to Toronto together last year and met each other for the first time all four of us and just had a magical experience. We were with Liz Gilbert and Martha Beck for a conference and we didn't want to go to bed because it was like you didn't want to pee. You peed with the door open because you're like I don't want to miss it.

Speaker 1:

Wait, what just happened? And so we meet every Wednesday for two and a half hours and it was going to be like kind of body doubling, where we would meet on zoom, say our goals, mute the camera, go work for an hour and a half and then check back in Like, how did we do? And we started that way. And now the entire two and a half hours we just talk and share and we have a whatsapp and we're constantly texting all day long. But it's we've named ourselves the quest queens. And yeah, there's one, one person california, one in el paso, texas, and two of us here in greenville, and all at different stages of our lives, and two are married, two are single, raising children, and it's just I don't know. There's something we celebrate each other's wins, we cry with each other, we laugh with each other, and I don't know what I would do without them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, and I love the variety, the variety of location, the variety of different stages of life. I feel like sometimes having women in your world that are in a different place than you is so beneficial because they just they have a whole other way of seeing things, and it sounds like these women are nourishing you on so many different levels and on a really consistent basis. You'll have this rhythm of communication that you know in your nervous system and in your body that you can keep leaning on. Yeah, I love that. Well, many of the people that know me in the greenville area know you too, because you are the owner of greenville yoga and you have your 20th year of studio ownership coming up, which is truly incredible.

Speaker 2:

I'd love to hear a little bit about the kind of yoga that you offer and what it's like to grow and heal and be in your own practice and run a studio that is offering something a little bit different. So we live in a world that's kind of I know we were on a walk recently and we talked about how the landscape of yoga has changed so much and we're in this season where yoga has really become this sort of diluted, fitness oriented approach and how, in many ways that's, that's like sexy, and what you and I are offering is a deeper approach and a more like embodied approach in terms of the holistic aspects of what yoga is. So can you speak to that a little bit?

Speaker 1:

Sure, I'm just going to say we're going to make traditional yoga sexy again.

Speaker 2:

Yes, we are here, we are.

Speaker 1:

Full circle. Yeah, and it's been such an interesting journey because I think I started practicing yoga 25, 30 years ago and then opening the studio 20 years ago. Yeah, there was no instagram, there was no social media, so we just got to do the practice. We just got to do what we wanted, without worrying what it looked like, or it was just about being embodied right, because there wasn't a picture of what you were supposed to be in that. When I started yoga, there was no such thing as yoga pants, carrie. That wasn't even on the market. You wore sweatpants or a leotard. So I'm dating myself just a little bit.

Speaker 1:

So I still remember the first time some hot yoga studios opened in Greenville and I remember people coming down saying you really should offer hot yoga. It's the only way you're going to make it. It's the only way is if you follow this trend. And I remember just putting my head on the table and like crying after they left because I was like I don't want to do that, like that doesn't feel true to my body and everything I know about five element theory and acupuncture and excess heat versus cool and finding middle and balance in yourself. And that was when I first reached out to a yoga business coach. He was the original yoga business coach in san francisco, lon saggy. He's recently departed this world, but my person and I remember him saying don't worry about what else is doing, figure out who you are and put it out there and, like moths to a flame, they'll show up.

Speaker 1:

And so he really helped us uncover like we just wanted to be a place where people belonged, where people felt comfortable being themselves, whether they were older or younger, more able-bodied or even had some injuries or just parts of their bodies they didn't particularly love. Like we just wanted people to be comfortable showing up and and then offering practices where people didn't feel I always like everything to feel accessible, like maybe a little challenge, but just a little beyond your comfort zone, and so people don't leave feeling defeated or like I don't, I don't fit, I don't belong here, I can't, I can't do yoga, like I've never heard anyone say that after leaving one of our classes. So I really stayed true to that like that embodiment of I mean I've shifted, I've definitely slowed down. You took my class for the first time in probably 15 years. I've slowed down, added different things in, but I feel like the heart of it is still the same of learning your inner landscape and then moving your body in a way that is right for you today.

Speaker 2:

So does that answer your question? It does. I feel like it speaks to the heart of what you're committed to and what I think that people don't even know sometimes that they need or exist out there. Because if your first exposure to yoga is through a YouTube video with somebody that you can't feel their energy, or it's at a hot yoga studio and not that I'm bashing hot yoga, because neither of us are saying that anything is right or wrong but it's just the spaces that you're committed to hold and I'm committed to hold, and what they, the potency that's available there.

Speaker 2:

Truthfully, I believe it as a sort of medicine that many of us need and is found uniquely in the yoga space. There's a quote by Timothy McCall, who wrote a book called Yoga is Medicine, and he says yoga is this one-stop shopping, and I really believe that we're getting to work on body, mind, spirit, life, community. All in this space that is yoga. Mind, spirit, life, community. All in this space that is yoga. And I think you embody that so well in the studio the studio that you continue to pour your love and energy and time into, and the teachers that you bring in and the offerings that are there.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, yeah, it's. It's that idea of yoga as medicine I think is really important. I also believe, like yoga is a balance point, and I think in our society and in our world like I call myself a recovering perfectionist I was definitely even starting the yoga studio. Even my yoga practice was a form of perfectionism for a little while until I learned the styles of yin yoga or the slowing down that it was like, oh no, you have to be comfortable with where you are first right, and then maybe some transformation is there.

Speaker 1:

But I think what I found is a lot of yoga teachers, especially like maybe newer yoga teachers, just like I was we tend to take our practices and turn them into what we already are instead of bringing us balance, and so I think that's where the softer approach is so important, because our world tells us to speed up bigger, more, better, faster, all those things and if your yoga practice is just reinforcing that, you're just keeping those pathways the same for your brain and your body and your nervous system never goes, oh, like home is inside, it's not all the other things. So I don't know that. I guess that's that's why I love it too. Is it's really a balancing practice when you do this more embodied, slow, nourishing work.

Speaker 2:

I think you just said something so insightful that I want to highlight for our listeners, and it's that when we often when we first begin our yoga journey I'm going to call it the wounded self or the sort of program self, the one that's stuck in all the patterning, is really the one that's doing the yoga practice and how we kind of morph our yoga practice into that as part of it, and how, in some ways, if we're not careful, it can just become like a self-fulfilling prophecy that just keeps the programming, the patterning, but we're more comfortable in it because we have all these great yogic tools that are helping us to be more comfortable, but we're like still repeating the same shit over and over again and how some of these practices that, like you and I are offering and many other wonderful people are offering, are an interruption to that and they are a wake up call and they are an invitation to just become more self-aware and explore differently and to realize that body image issues, for example, aren't just something that we get.

Speaker 2:

We have to live with. Like we can actually feel deeply at home in our bodies and find immense amount of pleasure in our bodies. We can get curious about our bodies and I find that so many women enter into yoga spaces and then walk in the room and body image issues, for example. They just see it on every woman around them. Who's got the better outfit? You know, I can't slow down and relax. That's just how I am. No, it's not. That's not how you are. That's how you've learned to be.

Speaker 1:

But you know, it's like you slow down enough, you start to see your own shit, and then you get tired of your own shit and you're like, okay, like there's something else, and yeah. And then also being surrounded by people, you know, whether it's in your community or any community like women who are reflecting back to you. It is possible to live in this world without body image issues. It is possible to be a woman and not be a perfectionist, and not feel like you have to work harder, smarter.

Speaker 1:

When you see the people around you freeing themselves, I feel like it gives each of us permission to free ourselves too, right? So it stops being the competition and instead be it's like the power with we all get to do this together. So, yeah, it'll all come up in all of our weird, tweaky ways that we're all hard on ourselves or whatever the thing is we carry. And then the beauty is, you see it, because your yoga practice starts to shine a light on those, those little shadow pieces. And then you're like, okay, what can I do with this? And that's where I think the beauty comes in.

Speaker 2:

It's like okay, here's this thing, help, yeah. And I get to make different choices. I've always said one of the greatest gifts of yoga is that illuminates our choice. And then we get to choose what we do with that choice. And sometimes the choice is like not right now, I'm not going to deal with that right now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's a good choice, and sometimes it's like hell, yes, let's go, and other times it's like I want to, but I don't know how you know all those different levels of stepping into that next evolution of self.

Speaker 1:

Right. And here's the beauty that I find, or that I've found, is sometimes just seeing it change happens without you doing a thing. So sometimes just seeing something clearly and going, okay, that's what it is, and like you said saying, I cannot deal with that right now, it still provides like just something shifts, just seeing things as they are and accepting them as they are. Sometimes, when I embody full acceptance, that's when I kind of slingshot forward without even expecting it, whereas when I'm like trying to wrestle it in the submission or to change it, then it pardon my language it's a clusterfuck. I don't know if that is true for you, but that's what happens.

Speaker 2:

I think it is like there's there's a more effortless path here that is not so doing and pushing and forcing oriented, that is available for every woman in the room, and part of that is that piece of I am aware and I am also going to relax and trust my own unfolding. I meet a lot of women and those of you listening you might be this woman, so if you are, I'm definitely calling you out that want to understand everything, like they want logical, explain it all, show me how and this just really isn't how like spiritually focused growth and healing work. It's more about just resourcing in and getting into that intuitive place and letting all of that need to control or know or understand go, because a huge part of the magic of yoga and intuitive growth and healing is it's like this just natural process that comes through when we just align ourself with that potential.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I took a class one time with someone and so I teach kind of a blend of yin and yang, yoga. And yin is about being kind of receptive and open, more feminine, yang is more masculine, a little more activity, emotion, and it's based on five element theory, which is this idea that we all contain multitudes and all the different energies of the world. But what he said and I thought this was really fascinating the yin-yang symbol is like a black teardrop and a white teardrop, that co-mingle and there's a dot of black and the white and a dot of white and the black and it's to show that there's this constant play. But he said what people don't notice is that the yin, which is the receptive side, it actually takes up 51% of the image and the yang takes up 49. So there is always a balance of activity and stillness. But actually I believe it was a samurai who was saying in the samurai code they know that it's 51%, that there's that little extra piece of relaxing into what is that can create that loop or change.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I can literally feel my body be like oh, you know, just that, ah, that sort of exhale, that sort of relief that we don't it's the permission.

Speaker 1:

It's the permission to soften.

Speaker 2:

And just let go a little.

Speaker 1:

Let go a little more, and then maybe some more and it's really hard to do in our culture and really hard to do when you're a mom or you're busy and you're like, oh, if I just do this one more thing, I'll feel better.

Speaker 2:

And sometimes it's like well, and when we're holding that illusion of responsibility for everything all of the time, yes, uh-huh.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes.

Speaker 1:

Just kick that door down, let's just get past that I, like they say, the illusion of responsibility. Yeah, I, I try to think what I used to call myself I it was. Oh God, there was a term I would, I would like notice like, oh, I'm in the oh my God, poor me, I have to do it all. And like I would hear it in my head and so I would just make fun of myself to like break the cycle, I can't. It was something martyr, and clearly I haven't done it a while because I don't remember what it was. But yeah, I would always just kind of tease myself and go, oh there she is the one who thinks she has to do it all. Like I better lay on my fainting couch.

Speaker 2:

Everyone see me doing it all yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I could, I mean literally. I would hear it in my head and do the thing putting my hand on my head and yeah, but yeah it's not not there anymore, so that's kind of huh yeah.

Speaker 2:

So Liz was doing this motion where she laid her top of her hand on her head and this sort of curled hands like, oh the fainting damsel, yes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, god, I wish I could remember what I used to call myself. But it really helped, it really just noticing again I didn't change a thing but just noticing, when I started to try to wear that hat or that role of the illusion, that I am the one that pulls all the puppetry.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I want to reflect back to you that you brought play into it. I always tell women that come through my world like I'm here to play with you. This is serious work, but like let's play with it because it can be funny and it can be this silly game with yourself that like there I am, I'm doing that thing again. Okay, let's make a joke about it and move on.

Speaker 1:

And apparently you learn faster, learning through play Like that's. I mean, there's so many times like I'll, I'll be on the on the side, I do one-on-one coaching and I'll say you know, do you want to say it in a funny voice or do you want to sing it? And all of a sudden they'll be like, oh my God, I do. And people who don't have that sense of play will all of a sudden start playing with something and they're like, oh my God, this image just came in my head. And the people who play with the thought end up just again light your trajectory, versus the people who want to hold it so tightly in their hands. Yes, yeah, play, huge, huge, huge.

Speaker 2:

Yes, everyone listening. There's a faster, easier route for you, friends. Play is part of it.

Speaker 1:

I think of it like flow right. I mean, this is kind of. I always go back to this in my own head for thoughts, for my body, for whatever when I'm trying to. If I think about the word no, I feel tension in my body. For whatever when I'm trying to. If I think about the word no, I feel tension in my body. So even if everybody listening you just think the word no and notice how your body reacts, nothing can flow through that. But if you think of the word yes, like even just saying it, my whole body does something different. It kind kind of opens, my shoulders soften and then things can flow. And so that's the way I look at it. It's like when you're in play, there's a lightness that allows things to flow differently than when you're going. This is who I am, this is the way I was wired, this is the way I was brought up. Like that is an immediate no. So if I can take it back to energy, it also gives me space between myself and whatever's happening.

Speaker 2:

Right, and if play feels too far away for people, just being neutral is a good option. So if you're listening to this and you're like I play, I don't know how to do that. So just play with being neutral, just play with being open, just being the witness, like Liz was talking about, with the like oh there it is, huh, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'll tell you. I mean and I laugh at myself because when Brene Brown's work first came out, she had the chapter on play of one of her 10 guideposts and it pissed me off. I was like I don't play, I don't have time to play, I'm a mom, I I'm running a business. I taught elementary school. At the same time, I do not know how to play, and play is just not my jam. And I'll still like my friends tease me. I'm like play is still not my jam. However, playing with my thoughts or inviting in curiosity has really allowed me to be more open to what play is for me, cause I'm not like I have a different form of play than I think a lot of people think of when they think of the word play. So if you're saying you can't play, just invite in curiosity or think about the opposite, like well, if that's true, then what else could be true? And that's a game I'll play with my head or with thoughts if I get stuck in a pattern.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I love that's a very beautiful form of play where we just get to explore, like, what are different possibilities right now. That's a form of adult play.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, not. Don't Google adult play, you'll get something different.

Speaker 2:

Oh true, I mean, that's a great form of play too. I will say, but maybe you don't want to different than what we're talking about.

Speaker 2:

So one of the things like a trend that I see in the yoga world and for women who are exploring yoga for growth and healing is that there's often this sort of vacuum that they're doing it in these days, and one of the things that I love about your business model is how it's all about in-person community, and so I wondered if you could speak to a little bit of the magic that happens in an in-person yoga community. If you're listening and you've been a part of one and you've not just like shown up to class and left instantly, but you've stayed and you've talked to people and you've met people and invited them to tea or whatever it is. You guys know what I'm talking about, but some of the women listening to this have no idea of the goodness that is available at an in-person yoga community, whether it be a studio or like an in-person offering, like the things that I do, and I want women to have that in their awareness. Yeah, I mean one of the things.

Speaker 1:

I go back to is in kind of acupuncture they say the healing begins the moment the healer kind of the acupuncturist greets the client. So the moment you see someone, that's when the healing begins. And so I think about that with the yoga studio the moment we greet you or see you even walking into the studio, that's when the healing begins, because you're seen and witnessed, so that's the start of it. And then when you come in, the teachers that really do well at our studio are the ones that introduce the students to each other, like, oh, you'll know, so-and-so, because you all probably you both have kids the same age you all should talk and kind of cross pollinate that's not the right word but make connections for each other. So there's already that. And again, that's the next layer of healing, because you're not just alone sitting in the lobby feeling awkward. It's like, oh, meet, so-and-so. She's been coming here for 10 years. She can show you around the studio and then you have a few different touch points. 10 years she can show you around the studio and then you have a few different touch points.

Speaker 1:

But then I think the magic and we teach a lot of facilitated breathing practices in the studio and I think breathing together is such a profound experience, almost like choral singing or going to a concert. I equate it to that same. You get a dopamine release when you go to a concert because you're all hearing the same music at the same time, or if you're singing in a chorus same thing. So I equate breathing together in that same way that you get that it connects you without you ever saying a word. And then you get that little dopamine release, that hormone that releases when you're falling in love or eating chocolate or having sex, and so I'm like oh so that's goodness. So you're connecting these people you never even speak to because you've just shared an hour of breathing together.

Speaker 1:

And sometimes people weep in class, sometimes people just have releases, sometimes I don't know what it is, but then after that people just begin to connect and have little conversations and whether they become friends or not, we have had several friend groups come out and we've had several marriages come out of our yoga studio, which is kind of amazing. Their first date was one of our longest couples. Their first date was at one of our anniversary parties. Yeah, there's just something at one of our anniversary parties. Yeah, I, there's just something magic that happens in being seen and then breathing and moving together, and I don't I mean, I think I know what it is, but it's there's, you know, it's just there's something about being holding space for each other and having space held for you, knowingly or unknowingly.

Speaker 2:

Right, I think that there's. What I hear you saying is that there's so many different layers of healing and magic that happen in an in-person yoga studio space that it's. It would be impossible to name them all, but there is. There is something different about practicing through a video and being in the room. There is something different about practicing through a video and being in the room, and I'm saying that as someone who has part of my business is an online business right and I know you offer online business too.

Speaker 2:

So like we're not saying that online yoga isn't freaking fantastic, because it is great and it makes it so much more accessible and you can do it anytime and you have these tools in your home, which, before the tech boom in the yoga world, was a real barrier for people. I would meet people all the time. They're like I love what I'm doing here, but I don't know how to do this at home. Now you can do that. But also, if you get the chance or you can make the time in your schedule to go take a class or go to a yoga retreat or go to anything in person, it is a whole other beautiful gift.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, retreats especially. I mean I've actually I used to lead a lot of retreats, like two, three a year, and I haven't since 2020 and I'm gearing back up to lead them again because they are even more magical than the space of a yoga practice. But yeah, there's just, I don't know there's something so lovely about, like you know, if a student in class has some tears arrive and people hear it like just a little sniffles, and then you just see them soften. It's so interesting. Like as a teacher, I just watch them almost send love to that person. No one gets irritated, no one. And then that person has permission to feel their emotions in a safe space and yeah, it's just, yeah, it is magic.

Speaker 1:

And I will say, with our virtual classes, um, the ones that are the largest are the ones where the women and some men come on 15 minutes before class starts and all pop in the virtual class and they're all, and I have to sit there and wait. I'm like, hey, you guys need to get started.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I mean, I'll have 15, 18 people at home on the virtual class and they'll just be. You know, put it away. So it's. There is something magical, but we started that in 2020. And so some of the women and men have opted to stay home through that, but I'm I'm kind of begging them to come to our 20th anniversary party, which is coming up, and like we, we need to see you see the rest of your bodies need to see.

Speaker 2:

you see the rest of your bodies? Yeah, absolutely let's. Let's see what each other wear, you know, just like how can we playfully invite you to come? What do they look like as a full formed being not on the box?

Speaker 1:

I will say I did a little last year I did. I forget what I call it. It was like a bird in person virtual reset or tune up or something to get the virtual people in just to see how they were doing, check in on their form and make sure they weren't doing some bad habits at home with their camera off. And bad habits meaning secondary imbalances not that there's bad yoga out there. None of them were breathing and I was like, okay, ladies, this is what you're missing. You're missing the communal touch point of of the people around you reminding you to breathe.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's something about hearing other people breathe as part of the magic of in person, that that anchors you back into your own awareness for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I think one of the things that's magical about a yoga community where I touched on this earlier was that there are people in all different seasons of life and you're seeing people go through transitions, and so I know that you have a coaching business and it seems like and please correct me if I'm wrong that you really thrive on helping people when they're at a crossroads moment, get clarity and navigate those choices about the transitions that they're making.

Speaker 2:

And so I'd love to hear you just like jam a little bit on women in transition for context, the women that are listening and we talked about this a little earlier, but I want the women listening to hear it. I know many of you are going through relationship transitions, either into relationships out of marriages, navigating transitions to single motherhood. Some of you are navigating the transition into motherhood, into postpartum, after child loss. There's women navigating transitions in the way that they view their parents and inner child healing. There's women navigating transitions in career you name it. If you're listening, you've probably got a transition going on, and this is an area that Liz is particularly good at shining light on.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. Yeah, I couldn't figure out my niche. I was always like, oh, I'm a generalist, I love working with everybody, and then I started realizing, oh, almost every time someone reaches out to me, the touchstone is that they're going through some kind of change. And the training I took was with Martha Beck, so you can Google her work. She's fabulous and what I'm about to share is not a secret. She actually has a whole section on our website about it.

Speaker 1:

But she calls it the change cycle. And so she says there's a catalytic event and the rug is pulled out from under you. And this could be good catalytic, like becoming a mom for the first time, getting a new job, buying a new house. It could be a death of a spouse, it could be a divorce, it could be a illness diagnosis, so anything that kind of makes you question your identity of who am I going to be next? So she says that's the catalytic event, and she equates it to the stages of a butterfly. So she's like what does a caterpillar do? First, it wraps in a cocoon, and so she says square one, whenever we have a catalytic event is rest. And she calls it grieve and disbelieve. So this is your time to wrap yourself in a blankie, put on a grief playlist, put on a sad movie, get your girlfriends around, get a hot cup of tea and let yourself feel what you need to feel. And also, she's changed the verbiage a little bit, but she used to call it clean and dirty pain and I couldn't stand those words. So I'm glad she's changed it, but it works so. Clean pain is like the clean pain of the event, like someone dies. There is clean grief in that your marriage ends. There's clean grief in that you lose a baby, a child clean grief that is painful. But the other pain is the pain we superimpose on the top of that. What if I had done this differently? I didn't do enough, my spouse didn't do enough. You start adding that second layer of pain.

Speaker 1:

In Buddhism they call it the second arrow. So that's the disbelief. So first you grieve, you go okay, this is sad. Second is you stop believing. The second arrow you shoot at yourself. So you start to play with your thoughts. So when you hit those pain points, you go well, what else could be true? And that's when people tend to find me is when they get to that point they're like oh, I'm feeling all these thoughts, and I know they're, or I'm hearing these thoughts, I know they're not true.

Speaker 1:

And then she says the second stage and these are all small move places, right, the grieve and disbelieve is your cocooning. The second place and this is what I love she's like a caterpillar literally dissolves into cells that are unrecognizable. It becomes goo. So she's like you're basically becoming human goo after this change and you don't know what you're going to be yet. The butterfly doesn't know what it's going to be yet. Its cells literally rearrange themselves and that's what she calls square two, and it's dreaming and scheming. That's when you start to go.

Speaker 1:

Who might I want to be on the other side of this transition? What is it I've always longed for but have been afraid to ask for? What would I do if no one's looking? And so that's just where you kind of try on and she always says you know, when people are at square two, when they get a haircut like this really drastic, not just a haircut, but a drastic hair change or you start buying new clothes or start you know, new car, those are big ones. Rearranging your furniture, like those are signs you're. You're like coming out of the grief and starting to go. Who do I want to be, and and then you know the caterpillar has to emerge, to go, to start to kind of the hero's journey Then. Then the work begins of like coming out in the world and yeah, so, as far as the transitions go, what I love to do and what I think is so important because we often skip over in our culture is like holding space for people who are grieving, that it's okay to pause.

Speaker 1:

In so many many other cultures they have rituals around grief. We don't have that in our culture, especially after loss of a loved one. We don't have, I don't want to say costume, but an outfit to wear or a necklace. Some cultures they wear necklaces with 12 beads and each month after someone has departed, you take a bead off. So the whole village knows where you are in your grieving process. You don't have that.

Speaker 1:

Right village knows where you are in your grieving process. You'll have that. Yeah, right. So. So giving people permission to grieve and just stop and to be still and to cocoon and then also helping undo those thoughts that add the sticky pain, that add to the to the grief in a way that we've created right, but the ones that we tell ourselves, versus the actual clean paint of the event. So I mean, my biggest thing, I think, as far as transition, it's just permission to do what you need to do, free from what the rest of the world thinks you should be doing, or how fast you should be back dating, or how you you know. Oh, it's already been a year. Why are you still sad about this?

Speaker 1:

You know, yeah, yeah, holding space for the both and I think that's really beautiful and I love so.

Speaker 2:

My oldest son as part of a science class, he brought home a butterfly in the cocoon and so we got to watch in real time that journey and it was a way slower journey than you might think.

Speaker 2:

It took weeks and even like when it came out of the cocoon, which took days, it needed to hang upside down for a period of time just to let the blood flow down into the wings. And I think that there's we put so much pressure on ourselves to be at a different part in the journey when we're in the middle of transitions and even like people put that pressure on us because they want us to be okay or they want us to have clarity, or they want to know what's next or we want to know what's next. We want to know all these things. But actually we could find so much value in taking that pressure off and doing that identification of what is pain and what is suffering, like what is the pain that I'm experiencing and then what is the suffering that I'm then piling onto that that I can take off. Because actually if I look to nature and my body is, I tell people all the time, like your body.

Speaker 1:

We're animals. Yes, we are, we are, we are not.

Speaker 2:

You're the soul, but you still live in an animal body. That's your soul vehicle. Yes, that time, that permission to take time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, even like I'm sorry I cut you off, go ahead, karen. No, go for it. I was going to say my son is 21 and he's going through transition and he was getting really frustrated and upset the other day and I was like, honey, you know, he was like I'm really upset that I moved back home and I should have stayed, and I was like story's not written yet. You're in the goo stage and the story's not written, your reason for being home hasn't emerged yet. And you're going to look back six years from now and maybe be like oh, that's why I needed to be home right then. And I just think that that's sometimes we don't have all the information and we want like we were talking about control earlier we want all the information so we can take the next right step, but sometimes the information or the next step hasn't provided itself because it's not time yet.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I love your thing about the butterfly because the other piece that I learned later is that if you try to help a butterfly out of a cocoon, its wings aren't strong enough to fly, so it has to struggle for those few days to come out in order to have the longest lifespan and strongest wings. That struggle makes the strength like the grist for the mill, I guess.

Speaker 2:

Well, ladies, if you're listening, I hope this gives you permission to take the pressure off of yourself and to I call it the mystery just to be in the mystery, like swim in the mystery, get naked in the mystery, explore the mystery, feel it with your full body, like whatever it is, just really allow yourself to explore it. And I say naked because it makes me think of a baby and just like the innocence and the like they don't, they're not thinking about all the things like how simple can you make it for yourself, so that you're just moving through the experience, but through that lens of rooting into your own intuition and and, like you were saying, like letting yourself almost change the way you're experiencing your life, move the furniture, cut your hair.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, furniture moving is huge, it's huge, it's huge. But I love that word mystery. I got like whole body goosebumps when you said that. I mean, that's the perfect summation of just a softer approach to what we're going through.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that we're all going through transition all the freaking time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, square four. Just you know, her mantra is change is always happening, and that's okay. Like each each session has a mantra, and it's, and that's okay. The the grief and disbelief is I don't know what the hell's going on, and that's okay. Dreaming scheming is there are no rules, and that's okay. Dreaming scheming is there are no rules, and that's okay.

Speaker 2:

I love those. Those feel like such grounding, touch points and things that you can just say to yourself as you move through the mystery of it Okay, I don't know what the hell's going on and that's okay. Well, I have loved our conversation today. I feel like we've spoke all over the place. I did want to give a plug for your anniversary party. You mentioned it earlier. Do you want to tell everyone a little bit about that?

Speaker 1:

Sure. Well, we're celebrating our 20th year of yoga in Greenville, which is hard to believe. My son was one running naked through the yoga studio when we opened it. He's 21 now and we're just inviting people for a communal gathering. Whether you've been a student at Greenville Yoga before a teacher, carrie, used to teach with us Whether you've never been here and you just want to come grab some food from the food truck or let your kids play in the garden, we welcome anyone who wants to just be here with us. It's the 20th of September, from 4 to 8 pm at our Greenville Yoga our only location. But yeah, to me it's just a way to honor all the people who made our space what it is and then welcome anyone who just wants to join us.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and if you're hearing this and you're thinking, gosh, I wish something like this existed in my area, I want to encourage you to get on the internet and look, because it probably, probably probably does. Unless you live in a very rural area, I bet you somebody is doing something magical in your community that you can go to and be around really wonderful people Because, as we've talked about today, community is such an integral part of your growth and healing and your yoga practice. To wrap up our time together, I would love to know how yoga has supported you in your growth and healing journey and sort of just, I view it personally as, like this, wellspring that I can return to over and over again. How would you describe yoga's role in your own growth and healing?

Speaker 1:

I mean that's perfect. Yeah, it's always kind of met me right where I am. So I started in my 20s and I'm turning 50 this year and it's definitely evolved from a harder vinyasa flow practice kind of more power yoga when I started, to this very soft version of sun salutationsations and I still move through the things. But to me it's an anchor and I love the word touchstone, so it's a touchstone of just the second I get on my mat and take that first breath. Everything feels different.

Speaker 1:

I feel like it's almost like parts of me are scattered and talk a lot with my hands. You won't be able to see it. It's like parts of me are scattered all around and as soon as I step on that mat, it's like a they kind of align in the center and I take that breath and then whatever comes comes. But I, yeah it's. I still practice five days a week. It's not an hour and a half per se, it's maybe 15, 20 minutes and it's always very internal, whatever I need in that moment and I just I know it. Just, yeah, I don't. It's just so much a part of me it's not separate from me anymore. So I don't know how to explain that other than I still do the ritual, the body practices, but but I definitely feel like yoga is just kind of everything I do and how I want to be in the world and, yeah, it's the through line. It's the through line since I was 20.

Speaker 2:

Through all the seasons, this thing that you can keep coming back to and be nourished by Well if people want to look you up on the internet. Where do they find you?

Speaker 1:

GreenvilleYogacom is the best place to find us and, yeah, we do virtual classes and we just in-person classes and we just try to be and let you be. Yeah, I don't know what else to say. Carrie, you've come to the studio so you might be better sharing what we do than I am, but greenvilleyogacom is where we are.

Speaker 2:

Yes, you can find all their class information, all the different events coming up. Actually, liz and I are collaborating on some events at Greenville Yoga, so you'll find me on their schedule with Candlelight Restorative Yoga coming up this fall, and I just want to thank you for your time today, liz.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, thank you. This has been. I literally I have goosebumps. Thank you. It's been really lovely to to be with you and to watch you through all your seasons. And yeah, I still remember when you and Tanner got engaged, so it's kind of amazing. But here we are still connected and still walking the path, so it's it's really beautiful to see the woman you've become too.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, I appreciate that so much. If this podcast episode resonated with you, I'd love to hear about it. Send me a message on Instagram, at TheNourishedWoman, or through my website, kerrymarinocom. And if you're looking for a space for deeper support, mentorship or simply a space to feel held, I'd love to have you join us inside the Nourished Woman Sanctuary. The beautiful music you're hearing is from Shawn Johnson and the Wild Lotus Band, and you can find them on all streaming platforms.

Speaker 1:

I won't get close to any philosophy.

Speaker 2:

I just know.

Speaker 1:

I can't survive Without mystery.