The Nourished Woman with Keri Marino
A space for women on a growth and healing journey — who want to live. joyfully and feel at home in within themselves body, mind and spirit.
Hosted by Keri Marino, somatic yoga therapist, mentor, and mama, this podcast features soulful stories, embodied wisdom, and truth bombs that land soft but go deep.
Each week, you’ll find short, heartfelt episodes designed for listening on the go — from somatic healing and inner work, to nervous system guidance and the real-life ways yoga philosophy can transform your days. On occassion, Keri welcomes guests who share transformative insights on everything from gut health to psychology.
Whether you’re driving to work, washing the dishes, or taking a quiet walk, these conversations will nourish your mind, body, and spirit — and remind you that your life is a love story you get to live every day.
If you like what you're hearing here, learn more about ways Keri can support you at: www.KeriMarino.com on at instagram @the_nourished_woman
The Nourished Woman with Keri Marino
On Meditation, God & Relationships with David Harshada Wagner
What if your spiritual practice wasn’t about escape or perfection — but about learning to be deeply human?
In this rich and soulful conversation, Keri sits down with David Harshada Wagner — meditation teacher, artist, father, and yogic philosopher — to explore how devotion, discipline, and pleasure all weave together into a life of meaning.
They talk about Harshada's journey from addiction recovery to spiritual teacher, the “God-sized hole” so many try to fill, and how to build a practice that feels nourishing instead of performative.
From morning gym rituals to chanting, marriage and parenting, this is a conversation about the sacred that hides in plain sight.
Because the real path isn’t somewhere far away —
it’s right here, in your body, your breath, your ordinary day.
About Harshada Wagner
Harshada David Wagner is a meditation master, artist, dad and teacher of applied yoga philosophy, blending ancient traditions with a warm, down-to-earth style that helps people access clarity, freedom, and meaningful inner growth.
Check out his website or follow on instagram. Click here to sign up for The Meditation Course and use code "NOURISHED" for 20% off.
About Keri Marino
Keri is a seasoned Somatic Yoga Therapist and mentor that helps women feel alive, empowered, and at home in their bodies. Through her gentle, spiritual approach, she invites women back into pleasure, presence, and the deeper truth of who they really are.
Check out her website or follow on instagram.
If you love the sound of short daily somatic yoga rituals that help you become a more radiant woman, with bottomless pleasure and aliveness.
Get instant access to 150+ nervous system practices made for women on everyday topics like: digestive health, back care, period relief, core strength and emotional well-being.
Try a 7 day free trial of The Nourished Woman Sanctuary here.
Welcome back to the Nourished Woman podcast. I'm so excited to share today's guest with you. His name is David Harshda Wagner. You are a meditation teacher, an artist, an author, a dad, a spiritual guide, and somebody that really represents classical yoga philosophy in your teaching. And you're also one of my teachers. I don't think you even know this about me, but I've been practicing meditation with you for like 12 to 13 years. I came across you when you were on Glow. It used to be called Yoga Glow. And I had been practicing meditation for a while, but I wasn't in love with it. It was more like, I'm going to meditate because I'm supposed to, because I'm a yoga teacher. And then your approach to meditation just really like blew the, blew the lid off. I was like, oh, this is fantastic, actually. I really love and enjoy this on a whole other level. So it's really fun to have you here today. Thanks for your time and being here.
SPEAKER_01:I'm so happy to be here. And I love that that was your that was your in road with enjoying meditation, because that's so much of what I love to offer.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, you're certainly gifted at it. So I'd love to know to start off our conversation today, what is feeling so nourishing for you? It could be physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, relationally, just that thing that you're like, this thing is so good right now.
SPEAKER_01:I think that I mean, obviously, because you know, this is what I do, and it's so much a part of my life. The obvious thing is my spirituality, but I can talk about that in a moment. I think along with that, it's going to the gym. I have this practice that I've been doing maybe for the past year, year and a half in a serious way, where at least four times a week I try to get to the gym and just do a very non-yogic, you know, cardio. I do 30 to 40 minutes of cardio and then 20 to 30 minutes of resistance training. And then if I do all of that, then I give myself the treat of sitting in the jacuzzi. And there I'll usually do a meditation on the jacuzzi and then going to the sauna. And I just feel like when I have those days in there and that practice in there, along with all the other stuff that I do, it just does feel super nourishing for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Ah, and I love like you have a whole ritual there of how you approach that time. And it seems like you've explored like what would just feel so good about how I arrange that structure of the cardio, the resistance, the jacuzzi, the sauna, yum.
SPEAKER_01:And I try not to make it, I mean, I said it like that's my reward. And that is the way that I do it when I do the the cardio and the resistance training. But if I don't have time to do all of it, I'll just do the jacuzzi and the sauna. That's the that's the basis of it. And that is the reward, just even for going to we have an athletic club here, you know, that where we have the gym.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So for me, I just I needed rewards to do things that, you know, I I've never really enjoyed gym exercise or athletics, that sort of thing. It just has never been my cup of tea. So I need rewards. And yeah, I've I've managed to make this whole thing very enjoyable.
SPEAKER_00:That's amazing. And I love that you know that about yourself too. Like just going to the gym is not going to be the thing that's like gets you out of bed and you're like, today's the day. It's that idea that you can do the sauna and you can do the jacuzzi and you can have perhaps a lovely meditation in that warm space that that makes it doable. I think sometimes we we feel like we should do all of these things, but in reality, sometimes we just do certain things because we know that we're gonna feel better after or we're gonna get this aspect of it that we really enjoy along the way.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely. Oh, and also I should say for your listeners, I let myself watch a show like on Netflix during my cardio. And so it's sort of like guilt-free binge watching, also.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so that's the other thing that gets me there as well.
SPEAKER_00:Is there anything that you've watched recently that you're like, this was just so fun? I just enjoyed this.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I this is really specific. I don't know if this is relevant for your people or not. I really like like detective shows, like SVU, Law and Order. There are a lot of Hindi language kind of crime police shows that I like to watch. For me, so much of my life is involved in love and spirituality and all these things that it's almost like roughage or some kind of contrast that I crave for entertainment.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that sounds really fun. It sounds like it's a way for you to play, right? That idea that we do something just for the enjoyment. It doesn't have to inform your spiritual work or your practice. It can just be the roughage.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I know that you have had a whole journey to arrive at the place where you are now. And I'd love for us just to go back in time a little bit together and to talk about how you got into this work. I know that you have some history with addiction. I know that in many ways, that was your doorway into the person that you've become now. Can you give us some insight and part of your story?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, I grew up in a family that was, I think, these days, very common in the sense that the the people in the family that I was born into had not done a lot of inner work. And there was a lot of trauma. You know, my mom came from a family with a very abusive father who was alcoholic. And I think that I was in this family by choice, in a way. I know that that sounds funny, but it's like they say that we choose our parents, and I I kind of I kind of resonate with that, this idea that our soul has some mission in this life and something to learn and some way to grow. And yeah, so I choose to be born in this family where there was a lot of unhappiness, and there was plenty of kind of material comfort. We weren't rich, but you know, we were you know very privileged and kind of middle class. So the suffering wasn't there, but just like a lot of internal suffering. And I had three older brothers, and all of them, in one way or another, got into chemical dependency. And so when I was a kid, yeah, I I got into drugs and alcohol, and you know, was kind of a a juvenile delinquent, you could say, and was just fortunate enough to actually get sober in the 12 steps uh when I was still in high school. And that was such a blessing because that was my that was like my letter from Hogwarts or something where I discovered that I was a spiritual person that just really needed to have this spirituality in my life to feel complete.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I love what you just said there about spirituality being something that makes you feel complete. And I feel like something that you that I really appreciate that you've spoken about many times in different trainings and things that I've taken with you is this idea that we're a soul in a role with a God-sized whole. And that so much of what so many of us are seeking or feeling a longing for is actually this connection to our own soul, right? Like yoga teaches us that, like, we have that personal soul, but then also that soul that is infinite and whatever we want to call it, that indescribable thing that you could call God or goddess or source or whatever you want to call it, right? But I it seems like you found that at that time in a way that really worked for you personally.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, I I found I found it's like I found the problem. Like it, I want to say I found the solution, but almost you know, 40 years later, I feel like I'm still seeking that solution. Yeah, but was introduced to that problem, just like you said it, you know, the the soul in a row of the God-sized hole. It's so funny to hear somebody else say it. But yeah, that's the thing, is that it's the basic teaching of yoga, but it's also, you know, the God-sized whole is the piece that I take from that 12-step philosophy where there's this there's this income, this basic sense of incompleteness in many of us. And I think of it as a blessing, you know, not a curse. It, you know, it leads us to a lot of really bad choices a lot of times until we find spirituality. But a blessing, if it leads us into a situation where we learn this teaching. And that, you know, that there's a you know, for many of us, a superficial life is not an option. And this might be the case for some of your listeners, where sometimes it's because of trauma, sometimes it's because of just some way that we're born or wired or neurodivergence or life circumstance. But we're either gonna find some way to live in wisdom, or we're really gonna suffer and like just not even make it. Yeah. And you know, there are people that can just have very superficial lives, and I'm envious of them sometimes. But that's that's not me. I don't think it's you either. But yeah, I'm very, I feel very grateful, you know, like all of the tools and all of the the solutions and all of the answers I'm very grateful for, but I'm most grateful for the question to begin with, of just being even introduced to that problem.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. I feel, you know, I've done a lot of healing work myself and I've experienced a tremendous amount of trauma and also turned that into something really beautiful. And I know you have too. And I know the women listening to that are taking that same like joyful ride. And I may sound funny to call it a joyful ride, but the journey of waking up and seeing that you can ask a question or that you could get support, or that you don't need to look. Like for me, I have a background in eating disorders, which is a form of addiction. And like come, like I didn't need to look for food for that comfort anymore because I could find it within myself, or you don't need to look for it inside of a bottle of wine or whatever it is, or a box of Oreos. Like there's a way to find it someplace else. And then when you start to find it someplace else, that sense of self and safety and peace and connection to something bigger than you, I feel like it really opens up all kinds of new doors.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. And it also, I was just I was just talking about that this morning, that especially within the 12-step world, you know, in in other spiritual communities and healing communities too, but there's something so valuable about just like connecting to others that also suffer to like normalize it. You know, like in the case of the 12-step situation, you know, if you're in a room with all of these other people from different walks of life that are all as crazy as you are. And you know these days, because we have these online 12-step meetings, I'm I'm still pretty involved in 12-step work. I you know, you'll be in a virtual room with like 300 people. And 300 people, none of them are gonna be shocked by you sharing your very craziest thought or craziest behavior. Because look, you know, full disclosure, I had a hard week with my family a week ago, and I ate night cereal twice. You know, night cereal.
SPEAKER_00:What is night cereal?
SPEAKER_01:Like you eat it at night cereal at night after night for comfort, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like I don't need this. This is an emotional support tool, right?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I don't ever I shouldn't ever eat cereal. Cereal is just like never even supposed to be a part of of my my life. I did it two nights in a row, yeah, yeah. And and to be able to do that also and not judge ourselves or not feel like we're broken, or not, you know, it's a it can be a silly thing, it you know, it's funny to talk about it now, but sometimes that night cereal is making a bad intimacy choice, or that night cereal is turning to like a drug or alcohol or something even more self-harming. And to just understand that, you know, this is a 12-step thing, but it's I think it's for any really bona fide spirituality, what we're looking for is progress, not perfection.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And that like we're growing and we're healing, and that, but it's not gonna be something that just happens, but that and then along the way to be able to love ourselves in that. We get that from from being connected to each other.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think that that level of honesty that you're seeing in the 12 steps realm is so rare. And I feel like I get to see it in the win when I hold group spaces because we're all doing really deep inner work and I'm facilitating that. And so people are sharing their truthiest truth, but we don't often find that outside of like an addiction recovery community of some variety or like a group therapy environment where we can just say the thing that we're scared for people to hear. And then when we can say that and other people don't fall out of their chair or turn away from us and they're just like, oh, cool, you're human too. It actually makes it okay for us to turn that in and say, like, I ate the night cereal, or like I'm having a really hard time with one of my kids right now. And I ate some MMs yesterday, and I was like, I am comfort eating MMs right now. Like, that's what I'm doing. I'm fully aware of this choice. And I'm also going to enjoy the fuck out of these MMs right now with their food dye because just feeling good in the moment.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00:So I love Ramdas. Oh my goodness, the wisdom of Ramdas. And I feel like I've heard you talk about in that in that like teenage recovery, when did Ramdas come into your world? Because wasn't be here now like a really big part of the introduction to yoga for you?
SPEAKER_01:Or it was the introduction of yoga to me. I was, I must have been 18 by then, 17 or 18. And yeah, my mom was actually dying of cancer. And I was newly sober, clean and sober. And somebody in my AA group, another one of the young people, gave me or lent me a copy of Be Here Now, which is you know a great book if if people aren't familiar with it. Baba Ramdas is it's kind of like a mini autobiography of his spiritual journey, and and also just a really creative exploration of some of the basic teachings of yoga.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And the story of him meeting his guru and everything. And yeah, and that that was the thing that really kind of sparked, you know, the first thing, as I said, was just being in the 12-step rooms and just discovering that spirituality could be an answer. And then that particular thing, I was like, oh yeah, this is this is my thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, I want to speak to something together. So I I live in the Bible Belt. I'm like deep in South Carolina, and a lot of the women that I work with are untangling from some sort of religion that their family of origin had. And they're exploring what does it look like for me to relate to my own spirituality? And I feel like I don't know about you, but when I found yoga, I used to be that woman, right? And now I'm leading those women. But when I found yoga, it was such a relief for me to see a different way of relating to God or spirit or source that actually really landed with me. Because I I there are women in my world who love Christianity or have another religion, Judaism, like that feels so good to them. And for you that are listening, please know that I'm not in any way suggesting that your religious ideals are not perfect or wonderful because it's, you know, we've all got our path. And for those women that are curious about something different, I'd love to talk about that a little bit together because to me, you really embody a very strong relationship with God, but outside of a religious context.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. I mean in Christianity in particular, there's a big emphasis on one's personal relationship, like in their case with Jesus. And there isn't always a whole lot of guidance about how to have that relationship. Sometimes there is, I guess in some churches and some communities, but what yoga is is it is that relationship. It's just that. It's like a technology, I hate to use that word, but it's like a methodology of having that personal relationship. And also with the freedom of a personalization of how we call that force or how we relate to that force. And yeah, I just I think that it's I think that it's so important and so liberating. Because in the way that I talk about it is that there's is the baby in the bathwater, you know, this expression, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The baby is the actual spiritual connection, is the actual like power of grace, the creative energy of the universe, the energy that comes in to help us when we need it. That's the baby. And also our the cultivation of our own relationship with that, and and also our expression of that. That's the baby. And then the bathwater is all the culture around it. So the particular teachings that it comes from, the particular kind of organizations that it is taught in. And then all of this cultural, moral, societal stuff that's there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, puritanical.
SPEAKER_01:In some cases, it's very puritanical, and in some cases it's you know less so, but it's it's almost always patriarchal. You know, it's women are almost never like in the lead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And in sometimes it's downright harmful and and abusive. But even if it's not that, to just understand that that isn't that's not the essence. The essence is that relationship, the essence is that connection to that power. And the reason why I like this teaching is because it frees me from or frees anyone from the church, but it also frees us to still go to church if we want to. Once we understand the baby in the bathwater, then we can say, Well, I don't have to take it all in. You know, I can I love I love the music, I love the praise songs, I love the I love the the community and the whatever. I don't love the homophobia.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Well, the homophobia is obviously part of the bathwater. There's not any actual teaching about that. So then you they can they can go and and get that juice that they're looking for and leave the other part aside. And I just think that that's that it's really important because that way we're free going in both directions. I mean, I can find the baby in anything, I don't care. I'll go to a church, I'll go to a Catholic Mass, I'll go to a, you know, it doesn't matter, I'll go to Tony Robbins, whatever. You know, like because I I love that juice of transformation and spirit so much, I'm not stressed about where it comes from exactly. And then of course I have found my own things that I that I love, and that's what I teach.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, and there's, I feel like that's an evolution as well. Like a lot of times, and I'm sure you've encountered this, some of my the women that I work with are actually just really triggered by the word God. And I used to be that way, right? And then as you unpack that and as you do make that discernment between like baby and bathwater and my beliefs, and also like that I can access, you know, in Ramdas philosophy, it's like everyone you meet is God and drag, and this idea that like God is everywhere all the time, and like we can find it in Walmart, you know. I find so much peace in that, and also that we can then step closer into our relationship to spirit or God or goddess, because we've we've untangled where the trauma was, and then there's this room for relationship to be there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I know it gets us out of the sorry, I want to hear what you were gonna say, but I want to also say that it gets us out of this thing of the parentification of God and and then you know, our own kind of in self-infantilization, where then we're the only relationship we have with God is the father, and then we're always the kid. And man, we got to be careful or we're gonna be in trouble. Like, dad's gonna be home, and we're gonna, you know, it frees us from that. And then, like, yeah, maybe we do feel like the child of God or the child of the grace or something, but we can also be like lovers with that power. We can also have that power be like a friend to us. We can also have that power be totally non-human, just like an energetic force that is free from all of our human foibles that we can relate to that and get free. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. I'm so glad that you said that. And I want to put a little disclaimer here, and then I want to continue to take take us down this road some more. So, for my listeners that are like, oh, where are we going with this? I don't maybe you're not feeling safe around this conversation. I want to remind you that my approach to this spirituality stuff and this relationship to God and your person, like, I'm not here to tell anybody what to believe. And I know you're not either harsh enough. And you can always use the baby in the bathwater situation with what we're saying, right? And so I just want to remind people to be using that discernment as they listen to us, like what really does apply to how they feel in their spiritual practice. And the other thing I wanted to get to is that you you have really explored very deeply pretty classical training when it comes to yoga. And like myself, I've never been to India. I consider you one of my sources of study in this topic. And I feel like hardly any of my listeners have their finger on the pulse of classical teachings outside of what people like me and like you are trying to share. And so I'd love for you to speak to that a little bit. Bhakti yoga, like anything you want to riff on here, like non-dual dualism, your journey in India. There's so much we could get into. I want to get into all of it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I think. So my serious teachers were Indian, like my gurus, like my like master teachers were traditional teachers, you know, that were Indian. And so then there's, you know, a lot of the bathwater, so to speak, was Indian and Indian culture, and some of it was just culture, and some of it was was really essence too. Anyway, so I'll tell the story. So I started uh studying classical yoga philosophy and practices. I was living in Chicago at the time. And I, you know, I got more and more into it, and I decided that I was gonna like take a this meditation intensive and become like initiated into this path. And I went in and, you know, it was like meditation in this, like in the basement of this like really nice house. There was this Indian family who who lived in the suburbs of Chicago. And I just hated it, like my knees hurt and I couldn't sit still. And I it was just kind of like not getting into it. Looking back now, the people that were teaching the meditation were not good meditation teachers. Anyway, I didn't know that at the time, I just thought that there was something wrong with me, right? Which is part of that that whole thing of like the the parent the parentification. Anyway, so I decided I was gonna bail. I was gonna like this thing was probably just BS, and I'm I'm just gonna bail. And so I went out and I went for a walk. I still smoked cigarettes at that time, so I went out and had a smoke, and I came back, and one of the people that was kind of helping me in those days was this beautiful man named Kumar. And Kumar met me at the door and he was like, So, you know, how are you doing? How's this going? And I was like, Yeah, I don't, this isn't really this isn't really working for me. And I remember there was another young woman there that was also her first intensive, and I looked over and she was sitting there with this these women surrounding her, and she was just weeping and crying, and she had all these you know people helping her. And I kind of looked at her and he said, Do you want to cry? He was like, You can cry if you want to, and I was like, No, no, no, no, it's not that. I just don't, I just don't think this is for me. And he's like, It's fine, but it's lunchtime, so at least just stay for lunch. And so I was like, fine, you know, I paid all his. Money, I might as well get the lunch. So they were doing the lunch in this very traditional way. Like I said, it was a really beautiful, you know, kind of a fancy house. But they had the kitchen set up where all the people from this meditation intensive were sitting on the floor of the kitchen in rows, which turns out this is a traditional Indian thing. And they showed me to a seat, and these Indian ladies who had cooked all the food were serving the food, and they were playing this beautiful kind of like mantra music. And as they came around and they served us, it was something about that and the love of all of that. And my heart just cracked open. And I did start weeping. Years later, I learned to meditate. Years later, I learned to do that more serious work. But and also years later, I came to understand what happened in that moment, which was that and and why I love the the traditions that come from India so much, because it comes from this culture of recognition of God and everything, and especially God in each other. You know, like so many of the you know, the yoga studios now have this namaste thing. But the real meaning of namaste and the real understanding of that is so profound of like recognizing that divine energy in each other, and that's why we bow to each other, but to all things ultimately, and you know, we bring groups of people to India every year on a pilgrimage retreat, and I continue to go, I was just there by myself for a couple of weeks last month. And for me, and for a lot of people, there's just something very rich about a culture that has those principles first and foremost, yeah, as opposed to consumerism, as opposed to so many other principles, that that sacred principle is there. All the rivers are sacred, you know, like yeah. So I mean that's that's kind of a very nonlinear response to your question, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:I think it's beautiful though, because it shows I often talk with my clients about what's the spiritual access point. Like, how do we actually get into where we feel it? And for you, you felt it through the container of that ritual. Like, we're gonna sit here, you're going to serve me, I'm going to receive, like, wait a second, I'm just going to receive this blessing and this meal and just that sort of sacred ritual. And then, and we see it a lot in Indian culture. I mean, let's be honest. And it's it's often not my experience of being a southern woman growing up in a very southern Baptist world has been that a lot of those rituals were very loaded in qualifiers. I had to be deserving of this. And I hear you saying, and maybe I'm wrong, that like you didn't have to do anything to get that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You just had to come in the kitchen and sit down.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it was just woven into the fabric.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. One of the one of the practices that is one of my favorite practices is it's called bandhara. And the idea is food is cooked, like you, you know, collect some money or you purchase a bunch of food, and then a bunch of a lot of food is cooked. And it's usually cooked with great intention and great love and prayers and everything, also. And then it's fed to whoever comes. And a lot of times, bandara, sometimes it's offered to poor people, or it's offered to like, you know, like monks, or but but it's it's just open, it's just like a public meal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And it's not an act of charity, exactly. It's a spiritual practice of offering, it's called, it's also called anadam. It's like it's offering ana, it's offering nourishment to the God in anyone who comes. It's like an offering to the divine in the form of whoever comes. And yeah, they don't, there's no qualification. There's no, it's just being human. But they'll also make the offerings to the birds and make the offerings to the, you know, the unseen beings as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:There's something that's just so incredible about that.
SPEAKER_00:I think sometimes we really need structure, like we need a structured container in order to find our expression. And it sounds like part of this journey for you was finding a structure that offered you that and that gave you a doorway into it. And I know you you followed that rabbit hole really far in terms of like actually living in an ashram, going and living in India and serving in an ashram and really leaning into bhakti yoga, right? Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about because I know some of the women in my world know what bhakti yoga is, and some are like, what? What is that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, some people are familiar with some of the practices of bhakti yoga, like chanting, you know, like chanting is a is a big practice. But bhakti yoga basically it's it's just the it's the yoga, it's first of all, yoga.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:What is yoga? We do we have this working definition of yoga that it's the discovering, owning, and then expressing of our innate divine human magnificence. So we discover that we have this magnificence inside of us and inside of everyone else. We discover it, then we own it. Then like we really accept that that's what we are, and then ultimately express it. We start to live that way. So then there's so many different kinds of yoga. There's jana yoga, which is like wisdom, like cultivating wisdom, or there's Hata Yoga, which is what most people are familiar with in the West. It's like using the body and like the balancing of the body energies to find that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Bhakti yoga is the yoga of a relationship with the sacred. So it's like being a human in relationship to that force of grace. And so that the chanting is one of the practices, practices like this bandhara practice, that's a bhakti yoga practice that I was describing. And ultimately, what it is is it's dedicating everything to that. So it's like all of the sacred things, but also just all of the ordinary things in our life. We just dedicate everything, our family, our relationships, and it's kind of like just having this. I'm looking at a tray on this on this side table here where I am in my office. And you know, there's there's a teapot on the tray, and there's also a teacup on the tray, and there's tea in the teacup, but it's all held within the tray. And it's kind of like having all of having this thing that holds all of the elements of our life. And that thing that holds it is this relationship with the sacred. And the cool thing about bhakti yoga is that kind of the first thing you have to do is you get to you get to kind of say what that sacred is. You get to name it, you get to, you know, you find its name and you find its address, so to speak. So that you can so that you can relate to it. So for some people, it could be something that they were raised in, like Jesus Christ or Mother Mary, or something like that. But you know, it it it can be an from another tradition that maybe we resonate with more, or it can just be something that is intensely personal, like some sort of a nature experience, or you know, something else that we just really relate to.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I love this concept of living a life of devotion to something bigger than us. Yeah. And I feel like part of doing healing work, doing yoga, doing inner work, doing somatic things is it actually makes room for that. And then when we can get into the like the downstream of that, it can bring so much more joy and pleasure and fulfillment into our lives because we're operating from a level that is beyond what many of us ever even thought was possible for ourselves. I come up against a like, I'll teach women these principles, and you may see this in your clients as well. And it's like, oh, that all sounds really good, but like, how? And I think so much of it is literally just choosing it. It's just choosing it again and it's choosing it tomorrow, and it's choosing it when you cut your two-year-old's toenails, and it's choosing it over and over again.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. And remembering it when we forget to cut the two-year-old's toenails, or we're cutting the toenails and we we clip their toe. You know, it's like it's like that too. Well, it's just like opening up our opening up our all the aspects of our of our human being, even our senses, you know, even our ability to experience pleasure, even, you know, our senses, like our sense of humor, you know, or our sense of of like artistic taste, and our, you know, like our sense of beauty, like opening all those things, you know, like the basic package that we're born into is very limited compared to what it can be when when we really cultivate ourselves in that way. And in a way, that's really what so much of this work is. And you could call it yoga, or you could call it, you know, like the cultivation of the nourished woman. But what we're talking about is just taking this like basic human experience and then upgrading it in in all these different ways.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. It's such a beautiful opportunity that we all have. Well, I know you didn't love meditation at first. I feel like we're we're there with each other. I didn't love it at first, but you did at some point you fell in love with it. So when did you fall in love with it? And what was different about it when you were like, oh my gosh, this is this is it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, I loved all the other practices so much, and meditation was kind of the last one that I learned to love. And it was really because, you know, with all due respect and gratitude for the people that like were, you know, trying to teach me in the beginning, they just didn't really know how to teach it. Now I can see in retrospect. Because it's usually taught in this way of like one size fits all. That like meditation has this very narrow definition. You just sit still, don't move, don't think, and like maybe focus on your breath or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Empty your mind.
SPEAKER_01:Empty your mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Empty it's basically just, and especially for people that grew up in these religious contexts, it's like sit still and be quiet. And so what helped me to love it was to learn that in yoga, but there's this idea of dharana that especially in yogic meditation, you could call the the kind of meditation that I teach a yogic meditation, as opposed to like Buddhist meditation or opposed to some like branded meditation technique or style or something. So it's it's the approach to meditation that comes from the yoga tradition. And within that tradition, there's so many different ways you can meditate. You know, a word like meditation is a word like dessert or medicine, where it's like, okay, so you know, like what's your favorite dessert?
SPEAKER_00:Are you asked? You're like asking me for real? Yeah, I love pie.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. I I saw a pie as soon as I asked that question. Like, what like what's your favorite pie?
SPEAKER_00:Like an apple pie, a blueberry pie, like some vanilla ice cream. I'm good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, blueberry pie with ice cream. Yeah, so that's a dessert. And for somebody else, like a banana is dessert. Or for somebody else, like green jello with you know, canned oranges in it, is dessert.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:For somebody else, like cheese, like you go to Europe and they give you like cheese for dessert. Yeah one is not more of a dessert than the other. And and so the same way, like a lot of the meditations that people have been introduced to, especially if they don't like it, they're like, it's just like something that was like easy to train other people to do, which means it's like the simplest thing, or you know, it's like yeah, it's like McDonald's hamburger or something. But it's not really what meditation is. Meditation can be so many different so it can be just sitting there and not moving and watching your breath. Yeah, that's a meditation. But meditation could also be, you know, like laying in bed and like visualizing, you know, your best day of your life. Or, you know, meditation could be, you know, taking a prayer that is like the deepest expression of your heart and just repeating it over and over and over again. Meditation could be like sitting and watching the sunset without looking away from it and just like fully allowing the beauty of it to enter into you. You know, meditation can be sitting with that piece of pie and ice cream and just slowing down and you know, eating it bite by bite and connecting to that that that ripple of pleasure energy that goes through you and what it connects you to, and noticing at which bite that pleasure stops. You know, meditation can be so many different things. And when I discovered that and I didn't discover it. That's like saying Christopher Columbus discovered North America. I didn't discover it when I first ran into it by accident, like Christopher Columbus. Um that was a huge revelation for me, and a huge, and and when I shared that with my guru at the time, she was very, she was very happy and she really encouraged that and encouraged that that be something that like I was already a teacher at that time, and she really encouraged me to like make that kind of my area of of focus. And so I just you know went to town just trying all these different ways to meditate and you know helping other people learn those, but first and foremost practicing those myself. Yeah and in just having the having the permission to enjoy it and having the permission to make that be the leading thing, that it's not like a no pain, no gain kind of a thing. It's not like cardio. It's like something that we will go deeper into it if we enjoy it. Yeah, if it sucks, not only will we probably not do it, but the very act of sitting there and doing something to ourselves that sucks, that is painful, that's uncomfortable, is kind of doing the opposite thing that you want the meditation to do. You want the meditation to like soften you instead of make you, especially geez, as parents, and like we have enough of that. Yes, we have enough things that we have to like hold our nose and and just get through. We don't want them, you know, if we get like 15, 20 minutes of precious meditation time to have some other sh, you know, sucky thing to do.
SPEAKER_00:No, completely, or we won't do it. I mean, or like like me, I made myself do it because it was like I'm supposed to do it, but I did not enjoy it. And then I thought there was something wrong with me because I wasn't enjoying it. And I feel like it just doesn't have to be that. Like even in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, like there's a line in there, and it's like if this isn't working and that's not working, then just meditate on what feels good in your heart. And that was such permission giving. I found that line, because you know how you'll read, you'll read a text like that and like you just absorb what's relevant then. And if you go back through it, I had already been practicing with you for a while at that point, but I was like, oh my gosh, yes. Like there's the permission to actually just enjoy this. Like meditation can actually be a form of play and pleasure and just like yumminess in our life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's what we need also. I mean, maybe there is a place sometimes for meditations that are really teaching people to be a little more focused and a little more honed. There are meditations like that, too. Don't get me wrong. But most of us, that's not what we need. But most of us need to just get into our bodies into more of like a somatic down regulation, into like an opening of our of our emotional layers, and and that's what will open those doorways to those more spiritual realms in us too.
SPEAKER_00:So if somebody's listening and they're like, okay, maybe I'm getting a little curious about meditation, what would you say to that person? Like, how how would you frame what's possible for them when they meditate or when they meditate more often?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, you know, again, I would really encourage them to play and to experiment. And, you know, something like Insight Timer is such a good resource. Yeah. Um, I have a lot of it's it's the online platform that now I'm, you know, in partnership with. I have a lot of guided meditations on there, but they have so many teachers with so many different kinds of guided meditations on there. Guided meditation is a really good way to go in the beginning, and to really play around with a lot of different ones. And that doesn't mean that if you find one that you really love, yeah, definitely like milk it. But but that's that's the main thing is like give yourself the opportunity to play. And as much as we talk about like the the what we say is that meditation should have these three qualities. It should be deep, it should be enjoyable, and it should be regular. So enjoyable, we kind of covered that. The deep and the regular, what that means, the deep means is that it should be effective, it should change your state. So it should actually like if you feel closed, it should help you feel opened. If you feel crusty, it should make you feel flowy. If if you feel, you know, it should change your state. If you're stressed, it should make you feel relaxed. If you're meditating to, you know, be able to sleep better, you should be sleeping better, you know, if if it's working. So that's the deep part. Then it's enjoyable. We covered that. The regular the regular means that oftentimes it there's a cumulative effect with it, and that the truth is if you only do it once in a blue moon, it is only so effective. But if you do it regularly, like almost daily, but again and basically again and again, then one, you'll learn what works for you. But two, once you find what works for you and you do that regularly, it has this cumulative effect, just like anything else that we do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I want to I want to speak to the fact that we can go into these really profound states in meditation when we do practice one that's effective and enjoyable and regularly. Like almost like absorption. I think that's a good word for it, right? Like you're really absorbed in that moment. Sometimes I feel like I'm like time traveling, not to be like too out there, but it's just like you go into this zone in yourself, and you can only access that when you're practicing. I feel like with somebody that you like you enjoy their. I think part of like the downside of Insight Timer is you don't know a lot of those people. Like you're not practicing with somebody that you have a relationship with. And then, and that's part of the benefit, right? Like part of the therapeutic benefit of yoga or meditation or any of these teachings is that we've we actually relate to the person who's leading it. And so going on Insight Timer, if you find that you're not accessing some of those deeper states, looking for people that you have a resonance with, like maybe they go and look that person up off of Insight Timer and figure out like what makes them tick to actually relate to that person so that then when they're practicing on and on again, that they're actually like they're able to go into that. Because I know for me, like I've been doing your meditation for 12 or 13 years. Anytime I even just hear your voice, I'm like, oh bam, we're going in. Like my body, my nervous system, my psyche knows. And so I want to encourage those of you that are listening and you're like, I really think there, if you're feeling in your body that there might be something there for you, know that we live in a world where we almost have too much of it available. And for you to really drill it down, like try out different ones, but also like relationship with the teacher can really be impactful here.
SPEAKER_01:That's part of the depth element when we talk about deep, enjoyable, and regular. And yeah, I mean, traditionally a teacher should be part of your community. And yeah, that that, you know, in olden times we would actually live with our teachers. I mean, in in really serious training environments.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But at the very least, yeah, it it does make a difference if we can have a relationship with each other to some extent for sure.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, speaking of relationships, one of the things that I wanted to talk about are basically like intimate relationships with other people who are spiritual. So, for context, many of you that are listening, you are either in a partnership with a person who is exploring inner work or yoga or spirituality or not at all. Or you're single and you're looking to get into a relationship. And I know that you and I are both married. I've worked with your wife, I've worked with her like privately one-on-one. She's spicy and deeply spiritual. And my husband is very spiritual, very into doing the work. And I thought it might be fun if we talk a little bit about what it's like to be in an intimate relationship with somebody who's navigating that, the ups and the downs of it. Do you feel like jumping into that at all? Okay. So for you, where do you feel like, where do you feel like the opportunity is to grow closer together when you're both doing the work? Like how does it improve y'all's relationship with each other? Because I know in intimate relationships, there's the other person and then there's you, and then there's what you're creating together. And I feel like when you have two people who are both doing individual work and their own version of that, right? Like the way that I access my inner work and my spirituality is very different from how Tanner does. So I'm curious about how you see that playing out in the in the y'all part of the dynamic.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, I I I think I want to speak to the contrast first, because I think that that's probably more common for a lot of your listeners.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Where it can be really hard to have relationships with anyone, let alone the people in your house. When you have discovered that, you know, you are like a mansion with that has like 40 different rooms to it. And you know, before you thought that you were, you know, like a shed with like just like this one space. When you married the other shed, you know, and then all of a sudden you discover that you have this whole other thing, and they're still relating, you know, as this more unidimensional being, that can be really difficult. And sometimes, you know, that's that's a journey in and of itself. And I just want to speak to that because, like, I think sometimes if I hear if I hear folks talking about this thing that's really working out for them and I'm really suffering, yeah, I'll just tune it out. So probably, you know, as those you're like, I know you're in a relationship with this really spiritual person. I'm in this relationship with this really spiritual person. Let's talk about that. I felt all of these people who are like, man, you know, this guy, he's, you know, this guy I'm with, he just doesn't get it. Maybe I should be with my yoga teacher or something, you know. Um it's a journey, and I think you probably work with a lot of those folks, and and I know that I do too. And what it is more than the other partner having a spiritual practice as such, it is this notion of the multidimensionality. That in in, you know, especially for a lot of people that identify as as men, they you know, they're probably not going to relate to like a yoga studio or like the lavender world of the kind of new age spirituality.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That was it's a it's an industry that is really caters to female customers. And so it has it has that kind of vibe to it. But that doesn't mean that they have a one-dimensional inner life, and and so that's what it is more than anything. If like I know so many men who have these like deep inner lives, they're not necessarily spiritual, they're not exactly like doing yoga or meditating, but they have, you know, they're in therapy, or they're, you know, they're they're working on themselves in some way, or even like men that are like into like success mindset, or you know, like like that kind of thing. We can meet there, we can we can meet each other there for sure. And then when that multidimensionality is there, then our relationships and the different points that we meet on can have that. So then if we're having an argument, you know, like if you listen to my partner and I arguing on a good day, on our bad day, we're just as bad as anybody else. But on a good day, it's something like there's this part of me that gets really triggered when this thing happens. And I know that that's probably not what you mean, but I just need to speak up for this part of me that gets triggered when that happens.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then the other part goes, oh, I didn't think about that. Like, yeah, I can understand that. I guess I was not paying attention to the, you know, in where we're we're introspective as we're as we're navigating the conflict. So the conflict could have those many dimensions.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But then the pleasure can also have those many dimensions. So it's like, you know, when you're going for a walk in the woods and you have those different dimensions, then all of that could be there for that experience of enjoyment. Or like choosing things, like choosing where you go for a vacation or choosing how you decorate things, you know, when you have awareness of energy or awareness of like how the outer affects the inner, and just these like kind of basic what we eat, what we don't eat, how we raise our kids, all of these kinds of things, it has whether it's unidimensionality or multidimensionality, it's contagious. And so, you know, the more that we can be in that multidimensional self of ours, it encourages our partner to be that, unless it just drives him crazy because we're annoying the way that we do it. We have to be careful of that too. But then also then our whole our whole home can can flourish like that. But what do you, I'm curious to hear from you. Like, what do you find with tanner is the juiciest dimension of that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So first off, I just want to respond to what you said because you articulated that so beautifully. And definitely part of what I'm wanting to speak to are those listeners that are like, you know, a lot of times women that come into my world hire me because their relationships are really struggling. And that's like that moment of like, shit, I gotta do something. And so they'll get into one of my containers. And they often come in very critical of their partner and not seeing their partner as a friend anymore. And and there's also, I feel like it can happen that it's like you do a bunch of work and then your ego gets a little too big. And you're like, I'm so good. I did all this work and you're not doing enough work, right? That sort of like dynamic that can emerge. And the reality is that we like we did go from the shed to the mansion, right? By doing this work, and that giving your partner space to actually do their own work is part of how I got here with my husband.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like I, I earlier in our relationship, I was kind of like pressing on him my ideas, and he really pushed back, which is good on him for pushing back. And so part of how we arrive there is we just continue to stay focused on our own work and then make space for our partner to do their work, like you were talking about. Like it could be success mindset, or it could be this, or it could be that. And so I just want to like, yes, listeners, please just like let your body take that in.
SPEAKER_01:And the good news is every shed is connected to a mansion. It's not that some of us are sheds and some of us are mansions. It's just that those of us that have discovered the mansion, we went beyond our shed.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know what I mean? Sound the other rooms. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. There's no such thing as somebody who doesn't have those dimensions. It's just whether or not they have been introduced to them and have gone into them.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, absolutely. And I will say that part of the, I think one of the greatest gifts is our capacity to hold each other's duality, like you were talking about, like in those moments of conflict that like I can say to my husband, like, this is touching on this point of trauma for me. And it's, and here's where I'm going with it right now. And none of that is about you. So don't take it on. But here's where I am. And then he can see that. And granted, like you said, it's not always that like sometimes the triggers hit just right and you don't respond from that like resourced place. But there is this capacity to reflect with each other that I feel like is so good. And also this sort of language that we can talk together that I think a lot of people are craving in their intimate partnerships. And so I want to paint the picture through this conversation that it's possible for any couple to get there when they really focus on being friends to their partner and seeing them in a positive light and seeing that potentiality of like everyone's shed is connected to a mansion, and that we all find our own way there.
SPEAKER_01:And in the other piece to just say that, you know, people that are in these multidimensional relationships discover is that like in the beginning of a relationship, everything is just kind of like automatic. The friendship, the sexuality, the patience with each other's shortcomings, all of that is just natural. It's just the way that we're wired that like gets us in, gets us in the door. And then there's and then there's work. And you know, people that don't understand that, then they just go into this thing where they just accept the shrinking of the relationship over time, where like the the friendship shrinks and the patience shrinks, and the sex shrinks, and all of these things just get less and less, and that's just what it means to be married, or that just what it means to get older, that and that's just not the case. It's just that then it requires some intelligent and creative work, and and you know, that those of us that have partners that are willing to go on that journey are very fortunate.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And those become doorways into more pleasure and more play and better sex and like all of the different things, they become not barriers where a door closes, but they become like doorways in. And I think that's so beautiful.
unknown:Definitely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I feel like my inner child is like, yes, honey, I didn't know that was possible. And it is. What a gift. Well, I know that you have a really amazing meditation course coming up. Will you tell everyone about it so that they know what's what's being offered there?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I started off as a meditation teacher, and that's what I was sort of known for for a long time. And I sort of, I don't know if I got bored with just doing teaching that all the time or what, but and and have realized in this past little season how important it is for people to do, and that by now, you know, when I first started teaching meditation, it was relatively unknown. And now it's relatively known. Like a lot of people know that it's like really good for you, but nobody does it. And I started thinking about that, and I just think it's because people don't know how to do it just the same way that I didn't. So it the course is just called the meditation course, and it's 30 days to a deep, enjoyable, regular sitting practice. And uh it's a it's a 30-day course that has like teaching videos where I go through the basics of like how to make your body really comfortable because it all happens in your body, how to work with your life force, you know, not just your breath, but all of your all of your life force energies, how to work with your mind, not stop your mind, not you know, quiet your mind, but like how to actually work with your mind. And then also how to take those energies that we discover and practice and have them be in our life. So it's not like the meditation practice is just stuck on your mat, but it's something that is just about how you live. And I'm doing it in connection with Insight Timer, where there will be the course that I'm offering, it's offered the first month of it is offered with a 30-day course. It's gonna be an Insight Timer 2, which are like these little shorter classes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so there's just like a ton of support. And it's like the idea in December is that you know, like we just meditate every day together in December, and we go into 2026, just like in a whole different vibrational field. And hopefully the aim of it is just to really help people not just meditate because they're supposed to, but meditate because they enjoy it and to find what really works for them. For some people, they're gonna do these really traditional meditations, and for some people, they're gonna find that they just have to like just like go sit on their porch and drink their favorite cup of tea and just think about all the things that they're grateful for every single day because it just changes their life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that that's kind of the the the short the short description of it.
SPEAKER_00:That sounds amazing. And I also I was digging around in the course, it looks like you're gonna be talking about like troubleshooting. So for people that are listening and you have some areas where you have trouble in your meditation, I know you're gonna be part of that is helping them troubleshoot their practice as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's like, what do you do like when you don't want to do it? How do in in it always it all comes back to like how do you enjoy it? How do you make it more custom fit for you instead of trying to fit yourself into some idea that you got somewhere?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I love that so much. Well, I have one final question, and then I'd love for you to share how people can get in touch with you. And the final question is how has yoga been a part of your growth and healing journey? And it could be like talking about a past version of you or a now version of you. How has yoga been just so instrumental in your life?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I think in in two ways. One, you know, because I had such a deep and and kind of abiding connection to it from such a young age that it's always been a part of my life. And and this is the whole thing. There are two things. This is the whole thing. And in any life, in any life, there are gonna be all of these moments of healing and rupture and repair and success and failure, and good times, and bad times, and hard times, and easy times, and you know, like having kids and raising kids and getting into relationships and getting out of relationships and being sick. I've been very sick at certain moments in my life, and just having it get tested in every which way that it can get tested. It's like how to practice yoga when you're broke and scared, how to practice yoga when you're really successful and everything is rolling in, how to practice yoga when you're falling in love, how to practice yoga when you get dumped, how to practice yoga when you know, yeah. Well, how to practice yoga when you're, you know, 25. I was 25 when I moved into the ashram. How to practice yoga when you're 54, you know, which I am now. And and to just see that it it helps everything, and there's nothing that doesn't fit into that as a sort of like a healing modality.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, oh, that's so beautiful. The way that yoga can really just hold you at all times and be this steady source of something, right? That you can keep by yoga.
SPEAKER_01:I think we know that I don't just mean like dower-facing dog, unroll the rubber mat, but like yoga with a capital Y in the sense of like approaching our life with this thing of discovering and owning and expressing our magnificence. Like, you know, yoga is the term that I use just for the whole broad spirituality of my life.
SPEAKER_00:Same. So, where do people find you if they want to get in touch with you, if they want to sign up for the course?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. The in my have an Instagram feed that is pretty active, and it's just at Harsha Dawagner. It's H A R S H A D A Wagner, W-A-G-N-E R. My website. Currently, the domain is davidhwagner.com, and that is constantly being updated and under construction. Between those two, you can find me. And Insight Timer has so many meditations, so many uh resources, mine and others, but also through Insight Timer, you can connect to all my other channels from there.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, great. Well, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I forgot to say this earlier, so I'll say it now. One of the things I just so appreciate about you is that you're real. Whenever I got into the yoga world, I was surrounded by a lot of like, you know, we needed to fit into these boxes. And whenever I saw you with your tattoos and saying, fuck it on occasion, I was so relieved. I was just like, oh my gosh, like he's a real person. And you're teaching all of this stuff, and you're not afraid to be real because before that, I really thought I had to be like performance yoga teacher. And so I just wanted to say thank you for being real. Thank you for being a person who can show like that you're edgy and that you're vulnerable and that you're committed and that you keep leaning in. I think that me and so many other people who look look to you as a teacher are getting that value. And I I know the listeners have heard that come out in this conversation as well. So thanks for just being an authentic whole person today with me. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I I do my best. I I I aspire to be an authentic whole person, let's put it that way. But thank you for that reflection.